ਫਰਮਾ ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ:ਸੰਦਰਭ

Don't delete this it is a Punjabi word. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੧੫, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Being it a Punjabi or non-Punjabi is a second thing, firstly, why you creating conflicts by creating duplicates. Please check your own talk page. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੩:੨੬, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

So what if it's a duplicate? I'dont really know the word that you use so why don't you you delete yours? §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੨੯, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

It's not the matter of one's personal, it's the matter of Punjabi as the wiki is written using the standard Punjabi and if you didn't know the word please learn but don't create duplicates for personal use, think you know it now. Please start using the Punjabi one and please don't create conflicts. The duplicates are not accepted in any of the namespaces. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੩:੩੮, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

It is not my personal word or anything, its your own ignorance. The word is used in Standard Punjabi and Hindustani. go research §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੪੮, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

This is absolute nonsense, stop arguing and making a 3rd world war about 1 template & 1 word!! The word „ਸੰਦਰਭ“ qualifies as a common Punjabi word because it is at the top of the dictionary entry for reference, & I've come across that word many times too. We don't have a policy against duplicates. We will have to copy other wikis because we don't have our policies and rules layered out yet. Even in the English wiki, some people use „sources“ instead of „references“, in the Afrikaans wiki they use „bronne“ instead of „verwysings“, so if we wants to use „ਸੰਦਰਭ“ instead of „ਹਵਾਲੇ“, it shouldn't be a problem. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੩:੫੨, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Please don't alter Punjabi on the basis of some dics; you are not a native Punjabi. ਸੰਦਰਭ is a Hindi word, transliterated. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੩:੫੯, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

That's disappointing TariButtar, I didn't think you'd resort to that behavior, I'm not a native German, but its my mother tongue, I'm not an Afrikaner but I get along with afrikaans? My ancestors come from a Tswana background and yet I am unable to communicate properly in Setswana? anyway trust the dic won't have the word and at the top for amusement, but since you wanna go that way we'll have to see what the community says --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੪:੧੭, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Sorry, Zarienah but I'm so serious of Punjabi and don't wanna let it alter by foreign languages' words that's why I joined here and almost stop editing the English wiki. I want to make it perfect by language but when people use non-Punjabi words and make arguments/conflicts it to be Punjabi, it's hurts me a lot (I can't express that feeling in words). At first, I used to edit the Punjabi wiki using an other account but then I didn't edit it for a long time and compeletly forget about the wiki and even my account here. Then I started editing the English wiki and got much experience there. Then one day I got a message from you that I'm an admin on the Punjabi wiki that makes me feel so good and again blossom my interest in the forgotten one. But when people disputed over non-Punjabi words..... Anyway, leave it, some may say, "it's not for telling your story admin." Sorry if I.... just Sorry! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੩੩, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

That's okay :) We're all serious about this language and it doesn't matter if we are of Punjabi decent to know Punjabi, I'm just saying that the dictionary has the word and I'm familiar with it. and that's my point, --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੪:੫੭, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Teributtar! I'm NOT punjabi, I'm Kashmiri but I speak it with Kashmiri as my mother-tongue-- if you have a problem with it I suggest you sort it out, ਸੰਦਰਭ is a Punjabi word, and as Zarienah's dictionary says. It is better to rely on the dictionary than you. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੮:੫੩, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC) and what are you so proud of? A pure punjabi wikipedia encyclopedia, your un-neatral newspapers?, unreferenced articles?, untidy unreadable biographies? one word articles? Bravo what a good admin you are, you get angry and are hell bent on removing my work but you let that all pass? I must just ...Bravo! §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੯:੧੬, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC) By the way taributtar, Hindi isn't foreign to punjabi, it's more like a sister language because lots of words are borrowed to and fro the language. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੨੨:੨੩, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

ਸੰਦਰਭ means Context in English whereas ਹਵਾਲੇ is References. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੦:੧੮, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Cont.

Please be bold and try learning Punjabi. You've no right to alter Punjabi just coming from a non Punjabi community. What do you mean by your un-neatral newspapers?, unreferenced articles?, untidy unreadable biographies? one word articles? I've not created all the articles and as of dictionary it has ਹਵਾਲੇ with more english words as meanings like "reference, citation etc." that we actually mean or for what we actually, want the translation. It's not a Punjabi word, you can check in Hindi for it, सन्दर्भ. Can you see सन्दर्भ just transliterated in Punjabi as ਸੰਦਰਭ? Your contributions are welcomed but if you're not Punjabi you should be bold learning it if you wanna contribute to it. Can I contributes to Chinese wiki just relying on the dictionaries?

Okay then, as of the dictionary, ties aim is just to provide every possible translation or even transliteration because they 'll never say "we can't tell you the meaning as this is not a Punjabi word." they are designed to provide every translation or transliteration possible. It didn't telling the etymology or origin history so please don't make opinions just relying on them and alter Punjabi with personal opinions. Even a non Punjabi can easily understand that ਸੰਦਰਭ is just the transliteration of the Hindi word सन्दर्भ.

You don't have experience of editing and possibly vandalised ਜੰਮੂ ਅਤੇ ਕਸ਼ਮੀਰ many times. Please concentrate on editing than making conflicts. What if you learn a Punjabi word, accept it rather than remain fixing with your personal opinions and duplication wiki contents. Please be bold. Admins and every user have the right against vandalism. Please don't misguide the Punjabi community by adding new foreign words in it saying, "because I know only". Punjabi has many dialects and every dialect is affected by the local language. Even in Punjab alone it varies from place to place and that's why there is a standard Punjabi. Any personal opinions of non-Punjabis can't and should not alter standard Punjabi. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੦:੪੨, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I differ with you Tari on this thing that ਸੰਦਰਭ doesn't exist in Punjabi. It very much exists moreover every language borrows words from many other languages. Punjabi has mainly borrowed words from Sanskrit and Persian. So, here i want to make the point that ਸੰਦਰਭ is now a Punjabi word but i can not be used for References In Wiki as it is like In Reference too but it mainly means Context. http://www.shabdkosh.com/pa/translate/%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AD/%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AD_meaning_in_Punjabi_English --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੦:੫੦, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Thanks Satdeep for you views here. A word being exist in use doesn't mean it's native, do Punjabis understand when you ask them for ਸੰਦਰਭ? No, because it's just here because of non-Punjabi writers, journalists and people of Hindi origin. Did you noticed me saying, "as of dictionary it has ਹਵਾਲੇ with more english words as meanings like "reference, citation etc." that we actually mean or for what we actually, want the translation." meaning that I also, said not to use ਸੰਦਰਭ for references here. Moreover, duplicating. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੧:੦੩, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

If we keep on using only the Native words then Punjabi will become a very poor language Then we have to remove the words ਪੰਜਾਬ and ਪੰਜਾਬੀ also from Punjabi. ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿਦਵਾਨ ਸੰਦਰਭ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਆਮ ਵਰਤੋਂ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ. ਮੈਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਉਰੇ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਹਵਾਲੇ ਦੀ ਵਰਤੋਂ ਕਰਨੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ ਹੈ | --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੧:੪੨, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I don't know which vidvans you seen doing this but I seen vidvaans worrying about the decreasing level of Punjabi by use of foreign languages' words. I don't think using native words is making a language poor. Anyway this may not the right platform for this discussion so please request you the make the main point also in English. Thanks for this support. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੨:੨੮, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Should I delete the duplicate now? As we've one already existing. I don't think we should support garbage, specially, because of just copies; the duplicates as we have already much to be handled. Thanks! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੩:੪੧, ੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Cont. 2

Please note guys and also check the 4th point here. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੪:੫੮, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

please note what's above that too! Sandabh means refrences and even the shabkosh proves it. You should not have a problem about duplicates because even the Dutch Wikipedia has many such templates, so please stop pushing what you think abut punjabi on others and stop having the audacity to tell me that I know nothing about punjabi. I have been living in a foreign land so I may be a little rusty but I know the language §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੦੭:੫੮, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

If you know Punjabi, then you may already noted but if not please note Satdeep's point and specially Babanwali's on the link given in my previous message. For your info I wanna say that the dictionaries, specially online ones, uses transliterations of other languages' words in case of difficulty to found the translation (anyway don't wanna this dictionary issue taken long).

Can't you check yourself how सन्दर्भ is transliterated as ਸੰਦਰਭ? Why there are conflicts about such crystal clear issue? And why coping Dutch wiki? Why not the English which deletes the duplicates in just few minutes? We must not add to garbage here, just because of duplicates. Please have a nice learning nature. Please note that the edits here always got edited for better by many of the other users so you shouldn't remain fix with your personal views assuming, "I'm-always-right" have you read the notice just below the edit window? and please leave your "my-way-is-the-only-way" attitude.

Punjabi has lots of dialects and if everyone from each of them'll create duplicates here saying, "I know this word so I'll create and use only this" then please think what wiki would be! Wiki is not to create contents for personal use here. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੮:੪੨, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

that's your attitude TariButtar, not mine, the PUNJABI dictionary says its a Punjabi word meaning refrences, it's a Shabdkosh(meaning dictionary) not a transliterateikosh. Why do you have a problem with the Dutch Wikipedia, it can compete with your english because it have even 1000000+ articles. Even English Wikipedia will have duplicates for this template. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੦੮:੫੭, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

The one who ignoring others is you and attitude is mine? Please be neutral and respect the views of others and don't be too narrow minded. Please be bold as wiki is not related to anyone personally. Please don't ignore my views that Punjabi has lots of dialects may dutch not. Please repair your behavior what do you mean by, "your english"? Please be civil and respect the views of others. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੯:੨੧, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

unfortunately I don't think you should be an administrator, I mean look at how many criticism you have been given and moreover you are pushing your view all over other peoples view, you also have this ownership over punjabi like it only belongs to you and your native punjabi aqquintences, this is a unique template and is made to link others together. Stop modifying punjabi to what you believe is right. If you really think you have the full right to do this then please scan your PHD and display it on your page. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੦੯:੩੦, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Again you ignored my point and of course others'. Also, one 'll not rely on your this comment to find about the quality of my contributions, so please don't spread rumors. You're asking me but please think neutrally, are you respecting others' views by ignoring them? In fact, did you even checked? Please be civil and polite. Thanks. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੦:੦੮, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

as per the dictionaries it is a punjabi word meaning refrences, as well if you just see it as a Hindi word transliterated, note that Hindi and punjabi are bothe Indo aryan languages and therefore will borrow words fom each other. TariButtar is just trying to keep this wiki safe and clean but I do however think that it can go too far because Punjabi is not a Pure language and doesn't have pure words, they are adopted from other languages. When I listen to hindi online I find it to be similar with Punjabi. Also please be civil and don't push your view, state it nicely, so that we can all interact nicely together, thanks, --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੦:੨੦, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Sat Sri Akal, Zarienah Ji. Sooner or later, I was hoping for a comment of this ilk: "Punjabi is not a Pure language and doesn't have pure words, they are adopted from other languages. When I listen to hindi online I find it to be similar with Punjabi."; but I was not expecting it from you. Let me ask what is the basis of purity for you?? I don't deny the intimate relationship of Hindi and Punjabi, but to say that the latter borrowed from the former can as well be called "overstatement of the year" (lol). It's not that Punjabi branched out of Hindi; rather it's like the two languages started diverging from their common ancestor (Prakrit and Sanskrit) many many years ago due to geographic reasons or otherwise. It's like saying the well-proven fact that "Humans did not evolve from Chimpanzees but at some point of time, they had a common ancestor". Moreover Punjabi draws heavily from commoner language Prakrit (having the typical grave tones like ਘ, ਝ, ਢ etc. not found in Hindi equivalents (infact Punjabi is the only tonal language in Indo-European Language family apart from Chinese). So it's not about borrowing and lending;it's about co-developing in close geographical proximity. Let me tell you, the differences in Punjabi and Hindi are comparatively more than those in Spanish and Portuguese (I know Spanish and a l'il bit of Portuguese). But do we say that Portuguese is not pure or Spanish is not? No, due to their close geographical proximity, they heavily influenced each other and had some common ancestoral language, aeons back...None is superior to other and none is definitely purer than the other. Do you think Hindi or Punjabi we speak now is the same as spoken just 200 or 2000 years ago? That way no language is pure since they all are tested by tides of time!!! Thanks--Babanwalia (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੧:੩੭, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Cont. 3

Babanwalia, I'll feel happier if you clearly express yours views about ਸੰਦਰਭ and ਹਵਾਲੇ here too, as you did under the 4th point here. May Vibhas and also other foreigners checking the dispute, not like to visit different pages for what the community said. So request you to make your point here too. Thanks!

And, Zarienah I also didn't expected that from you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੨:੦੪, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Tari Ji, as happy I would feel to "explain" this to the people here, I don't think it's gonna be worth it. Well, one cannot keep on speaking to walls. There should be an initiative from other side too. So, I think it would be best that my time is utilized contributing to the Wikipedia instead of arguing with them. If you insist, I suggest all the users to read this interesting article http://french.about.com/b/2003/07/12/courriel-cest-officiel.htm about How French people like to keep their words (like e-mail) "MOST FRENCH" (Hawale is de facto most Punjabified) especially in Literature, though in colloquial usage they may use e-mail, mel etc. So in my opinion, had there been no word Hawale, I'd have gone with Sandarbh, but when the word is there unharmed, why use Sandarbh?? It's like, when we have "gloating" in English, why use "Schadenfreude" (both are listed in English Dictionaries and so are English words "now" but latter comes from German). And please refrain from using words like "foreigners"...Better use worthy guests...It's more diplomatic and professional plus soothing to ears of "guests" ...lol...Thanks --Babanwalia (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੨:੩੮, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Thanks Babanwalia! Because I've been listening to a bit of Hindi, and found that punjabi and Hindi defiantly share a relationship, like I listened to how they would say it in Hindi "Mera naam Zarienah hai" and it made me think that it would be the same in Punjabi. So comparing it to Spanish and Portugese is a good example because I see that they share a lot of vocabulary, but not quite the same, like German and Dutch. Feel free to email me and let me deeper into punjabi history. Btw... I have stated long before that punjabi is not a pure language in the community portal. Seems ya'all must have ignored it --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੨:੨੦, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

„vibhas and all the foreigners“ wasn't expecting that again TariButtar. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੨:੨੮, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Yes Zarienah, that's my point after all. See, "my" is "Mera" in both the languages, as is "Hai" in both. But you cant say that it is a Hindi word or Punjabi word. No, it was the word of their ancestoral language that both languages incorporated and passed on through ages unchanged. So either both of them are pure or none is. That's the only thing I'd like you to delve upon. Thanks for your unbiased acumen:))--Babanwalia (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੨:੩੮, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

First of all, wanna apologize for some capital letters here.

BABANWALIA, PLEASE REPLY BELOW THE PREVIOUS ONE NOT IN BETWEEN. PLEASE FIX AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

And guys, YOU TAKEN WRONG. My English is not so fluent so sometimes, in a hurry, it's difficult for me to find appropriate word. SO PLEASE DON'T MIND as we use the word 'foreign' here many times for languages so used this for users IN A HURRY, and didn't call Vibhas a foreigner as he is contributing here knowing Punjabi very well but I admit that I used the word for USERS CAME FROM OTHER WIKIs, BUT NOT IN THE MEANING OF WHAT YOU TAKE IT TO BE; JUST BCZ OF MY ENGLISH. And Zarienah, plz sirf is karke hi horaan dian ghaltian waddian kar ke na dikhao ke ohna ne tuhadian kitian see. From now I may prefer to use Punjabi. PLZ BABANWALIA FIX YOUR CONFUSING EDIT AND HELP MAINTAINING THE RIGHT FORMAT FOR TALK. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੨੦, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Sorry for the wrong format. And, Buttar Ji, Kirpa karke Vandalism layi koi Punjabi word use karya karo na ki vandaalism...jiven ki ਉਜਾੜਾ, ਸੱਤਿਆਨਾਸ, ਅਯੋਗ/ਉਜਾੜੂ/ਹਾਨੀਕਾਰਕ ਲੇਖਾ/ਚਿੱਠਾ/ਤਫਸੀਲ ਜਾਂ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਢੁਕਵਾਂ ਸ਼ਬਦ। ਧੰਨਵਾਦ--Babanwalia (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੩੬, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Cont. 4

thank you, baaee. Main vi ehde bare kai vari sochya par hor kamm hi bahut ne karn nu time hi ni milya. Te tuhade mashwaryaan choo mainu lafz "ujaara" theek laggya. Par mere khial ch "ujaara" tan use hovega je koi bane-banaaye article nu vandalise kare tan us nu keh sakde haan ke is user ne article da ujaara kita kyu ke ujaara maujood cheez da hunda. par je koi user vandalism naal new articles banaaonda hai, us article nu delete karn lai "ujaara" use karna theek nahi lagda kyu ke jehri cheez shuru hi vandalism naal hoi a ohda ki ujaara hona. Is waaste mere khial ch "ਵਹਿਸ਼ਤ" theek hai, nahi? --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੫:੩੬, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Jehri gall tusin sahmne rakhi aa je oh english te laagu kiti jaave tan vandalism da shabadi matlab "the crime of destroying or damaging something for no deliberate reason" hi hunda, matlab english vich vi pher galat hi use hunda. Baaki jiven tuhanu changa lagge. bas vandaalism na varteya karo.--Babanwalia (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੫:੫੨, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

bai main kadon keha english ch galat use hoya hai. Main tan enna keha vi english vaangu punjabi de lafz aksar har jagah use nahi hunde. Tuhadi salaah mangi see, jiven ke wikipedia te mangni ban'di hai. Te ki eh duplicate nu delete kar dena chaahida? Mere khial ch wiki te pehlan hi bahut koora (garbage) pia hai kamm karn lai saanu duplicates naal hor nahi vadhaona chahida. Te punjabi dian bahut dialects ne, je har koi aa ke apni local punjabi de lafzan de hisaab naal apne lai personal page banaon lagge tan socho wiki ki ban ju ga..! Phir standard punjabi di ki kadar a, oh kise ne isey problem de hall lai suggest kiti honi a te tan hi manzoorshuda hai. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੬:੦੮, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)